Still have questions? Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Get your answers by asking now. The second Kraj ALSO sees the copied ability on Kraj #1 and copies THAT. So your first solution is what would happen, but then the rules push in a failsafe and we revert to the simpler process of applying effects, which results in your second solution. Let's say you have 2 Experiment Kraj (via Mirror Gallery or something) and a Patron of the Orochi on the battlefield, each with at least one +1/+1 counter on it. then "Simic Ringworm" would be replaced with "This Creature." Kraj #2 now has 2 instances of the Patron's ability. Suppose kraj #1 entered the battlefield first: we apply kraj #1's effect first, giving kraj #1 two abilities: the counter-adding ability from kraj #2 and the untapping ability from patron of the orochi. Quicksilver Elemental on the other hand, though its not in the cards text, ruled that if it says something like [{U} untap Simic Ringworm.] Kraj #1 then sees 3 instances of the ability (2 on Kraj #2, 1 on Patron) on the battlefield and takes all of those, ending up with 3 copies of the ability on itself. You found one of those fun dependency loops. or does Experiment Kraj now inherit the ability to untap Simic Ringworm only? Can anyone help? This is the correct version. I looked at the rulings and it just... Kraj only gains activated abilities so if the ability has a colon in it, it's activated. Join us discussing news, tournaments, gameplay, deckbuilding, strategy, lore, fan art, cosplay, and more. 2016-06-08: Activated abilities contain a colon. An effect dependent on one or more other effects waits to apply until just after all of those effects have been applied. Rules: Experiment Kraj has all activated abilities of each other creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. EDH Recommendations and strategy content for Magic: the Gathering Commander I looked at the rulings and it just says that Kraj needs to tap mana of the original color of the ability (unlike Quicksilver Elemental) but nothing else. For example, you treat an ability that says "Sacrifice a creature: Nantuko Husk gets +2/+2 until end of turn" as "Sacrifice a creature: Quicksilver Elemental gets +2/+2 until end of turn.". Simic Ringworm's activated ability is [{U} untap Simic Ringworm.] It was, technically speaking, an enormous body made of cytoplasts, with a huge neuroboretum cluster for its brain. 6/8/2016 Activated abilities contain a colon. Was this Poker Hand played out correctly question? An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp. The rulling for Kraj is to clarify that Kraj doesn't have this same ability as Quicksilver Elemental. And if you check the Oracle text of Quicksilver Elemental it said: If any of the abilities use that creature's name, use this creature's name instead. 613.7a An effect is said to "depend on" another if (a) it's applied in the same layer (and, if applicable, sublayer) as the other effect (see rules 613.1 and 613.3); (b) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to; and (c) neither effect is from a characteristic-defining ability or both effects are from characteristic-defining abilities. How do you think about the answers? Artist: Mark Tedin. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=43045, Experiment Kraj is a legendary creature so it would be destroyed as per the legendary rule. 5/1/2006. Okay. They’re generally written “[Cost]: [Effect].” Unlike with cards like Quicksilver Elemental, the costs of the activated abilities Experiment Kraj gains must be paid with the correct colors of mana. Yes, you can untap it then. Each is dependant on the other, so the dependency loop is ignored and the effects get applied in timestamp order. You can sign in to vote the answer. Mark Tedin. Card Rulings 5/1/2006 Unlike with cards like Quicksilver Elemental, the costs of the activated abilities Experiment Kraj gains must be paid with the correct colors of mana. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. They’re generally written “ [Cost]: [Effect].”. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order: 613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied. A diverse community of players devoted to Magic: the Gathering, a trading card game ("TCG") produced by Wizards of the Coast and originally designed by Richard Garfield. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the other effect. {U}: Untap Simic Ragworm actually means {U}: Untap [this card]. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is sometimes done using a dependency system. Let's say you have 2 Experiment Kraj (via Mirror Gallery or something) and a Patron of the Orochi on the battlefield, each with at least one +1/+1 counter on it. So if you put a +1/+1 on Ragworm via Kraj, then Kraj will gain Ragworm's "{U}: Untap [this card]" ability. If you use all the abilities, you'll be able to untap forests and green creatures a total of 4 times per turn (once with the patron, once with kraj #1, and twice with kraj #2). If multiple dependent effects would apply simultaneously in this way, they're applied in timestamp order relative to each other. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. Experiment Kraj rulings: 2006-05-01: Unlike with cards like Quicksilver Elemental, the costs of the activated abilities Experiment Kraj gains must be paid with the correct colors of mana. There are ways around it...like using Mirror Gallery...which I mentioned... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Trample is a static ability, giving the +1/+1 to other zombies is also static. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=43045. The first Kraj sees Patron's ability, copies it. 613.6. Then the second Kraj sees the original Patron's ability, copies it. Why do some people still play with pokemon cards. or does Experiment Kraj now inherit the ability to untap Simic Ringworm only? Anytime a card refers to itself by name, you can substitute "This Card" in place of the name. 6/8/2016. 613.7. If a dependency exists, it will override the timestamp system. 613.1. 110. Project Kraj was a secret project of the Simic guildmaster Momir Vig. 5/1/2006. Okay. [This card] in this case will be Experiment Kraj. This is a really interesting question. or does Experiment Kraj now inherit the ability to untap Simic Ringworm only? Activated abilities contain a colon. Experiment Kraj Rules Question [Judge Help Appreciated!] This goes back and forth between the Krajs until they each have infinite instances of the Patron ability and can therefore use it an infinite amount of times. Rulings. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the other effect. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. And that's it; we have now applied all of the effects. Simic Ringworm's activated ability is [{U} untap Simic Ringworm.] If multiple dependent effects would apply simultaneously in this way, they're applied in timestamp order relative to each other. 613.7a. Next, we apply kraj #2's ability, giving kraj #2 three abilities: the counter-adding ability from kraj #1, the untapping ability from kraj #1, and the untapping ability from patron of the orochi. The difference between Kraj and Quicksilver is Quicksilver's 2nd ability (a replacement ability) which said: You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to pay the activation costs of Quicksilver Elemental's abilities. Press J to jump to the feed. See below for more detail: There are two continuous effects attempting to add abilities. If several dependent effects form a dependency loop, then this rule is ignored and the effects in the dependency loop are applied in timestamp order. Kraj was activated by Vig and Svogthir with the help of dragon cerebral fluid from one of the Cauldron dragons. 613.7b. I was need to know, if I put a +1/+1 counter on Simic Ringworm, can I tap one blue mana to untap Experiment Kraj? Or maybe this stops at the second Kraj taking the ability from each other creature once, ending up with 2 instances of the ability and 4 total on the battlefield (1 on Patron, 1 on Kraj #1, 2 on Kraj #2)? Rulings. An effect is said to "depend on" another if (a) it's applied in the same layer (and, if applicable, sublayer) as the other effect (see rules 613.1 and 613.3); (b) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to; and (c) neither effect is from a characteristic-defining ability or both effects are from characteristic-defining abilities.
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